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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 3, 2012 2:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jerry's Big Fat Cop-out?

NOTE: hijack; nothing to do with Bill or Ring lee O per se...just the old quote got me thinking:

"For me, the lame part of the Sixties was the political part, the social part. The real part was the spiritual part."

Jerry Garcia

The oft quoted quote of JG's, above, got me thinking...I have always considered Jerry (& the DEAD) the apolitical, areligious, anti-leaders of the sort to be expected given they achieved (relative) fame and fortune during and in part because of the 60s. They possessed, it seemed to me, a well reasoned cynical perspective--healthy and well informed, IMHO.

At least initially, as we have often discussed hereabouts, they wanted nothing to do with "standing" for anything, avoided stances that might lend such authority derived from their musical abilities to "endorsements", blah, blah, blah...

Reading that quote again, I realize that in some respects, it is an admission of an extreme, self centered perspective (which I adore, trust me), as it suggests all the political & social developments were either uninteresting or unimportant or illusions...eh? Civil rights? Really?

I think for him, this aspect of spiritual = self actualization. That is, the self indulgent aspects of mind expansion, blah, blah, blah (of which he was a huge fan, as outlined in the SignPost Book from the early 70s), and more blah....as opposed to spiritual enlightenment en masse, vis-a-vis society as a whole, traditional mass religion, etc. Don't get me wrong, I think Jerry imagined that if everyone was much more self indulgent, if we were all passive hedonists of the extreme sort, that all of this self actualization would lead to the world being a much better place. Over-simplification, but you get the idea.

An observation of the "duh?" variety per usual? Was Jerry the sort that was so cynical he didn't see advances in 60s on the social & political front?

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Poster: Reade Date: Jun 3, 2012 3:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jerry's Big Fat Cop-out?

I happen to think this a wonderful post despite the hijack. Let me lame it up by responding.

Garcia was definitely NOT too cynical to see the advances on the social and political fronts. It's just that to him it was all so achingly slow.... In his world there wouldn't be a need for Civil Rights legislation.

On the Social front I have always felt like I totally got what he was talking about with that quote.
Others have said it differently: Larry David, of Seinfeld and Curb Your Enthusiasm fame has said he never saw so much conformity as he did in the Sixties.
That to me was what Jerry was referencing. He was a true contrarian. DID NOT go with the flow. Didn't like playing anti-war protests in the sixties, defended disco music in the late seventies at the height of the Disco Sucks movement, etc.

I never saw him as 'apolitical' as much as I saw him as a dyed-in-the-wool contrarian. I've known a few believe me- while they can rain on a parade more quickly than anybody, they're also among the brightest people I've known.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 3, 2012 4:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jerry's Big Fat Cop-out?

Oh yeah, I can defn see that; and it may be the major contributing factor (ie, rather than really thinking it hadn't been "good" or that we hadn't "advanced", etc., etc., this was his approach/position/etc).

And, defn know what you are driving at, and without trying to sound like "ah ha! I am one, thus intelligent and well liked by you" (har, har), I often come off like this (not meaning to always rain on parades but somehow end up doing it, etc., etc).

He probably would have agreed with folks, in the end, that things had improved, in some knock down drag out discussion, but would have taken a number of Devil's Advocate positions on the way to that agreement...

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Poster: Reade Date: Jun 4, 2012 8:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jerry's Big Fat Cop-out?

"He probably would have agreed with folks, in the end, that things had improved, in some knock down drag out discussion, but would have taken a number of Devil's Advocate positions on the way to that agreement..."

For sure. Mightily distrustful of anything political, Jerry wasn't gonna give alot of ground there easily.
When Weir would rag him about not voting, he would proclaim n his silvery elfin voice, "Vote for what?'